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There were times that called for the use of ancient and powerful words, the acknowledgment of humans in a crisis everywhere and everywhen since language was first invented. This was one of them. "Shit." Aurora said.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:36 am 
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Pattern Adept

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:45 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Salisbury MD
Corwin was listed as a mental patient only to keep him locked up and sedated until after Eric's coronation but that got backfired and yes his point of view may be biased but would you write something bad about youself if you were writing your story? Most of us wouldn't. What you got to do is read what the other's have said. Even Caine who Corwin doesn't really like to much said that Brand was psycho.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:44 am 
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OK, we've gotten way off topic here, I'm thinking. Corwin and Brand's mental instability should be the topic of another thread. Possibly not in this forum.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:31 am 
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Shadow Walker

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:26 am
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Location: Circle Pines, MN
Okay, back on topic.

I've never really used Osric in any of my games. I've used Finndo as an NPC, but as a "refugee from Oberon's wrath living a domestic life in Chaos." rather than "*I* taught Benedict" Finndo.

So, IMC, Benedict is still the best Amberite in the field. He's not perfect (witness the fight with Corwin and the black grass), but unless you have a real surprise he can't anticipate on your side, he'll almost certainly beat you.

I seem to remember reading somewhere an analysis of comparing strength, endurance and warfare together in comparing duels between the Amberites. As I recall, it suggested that Benedict would lose a couple of matchups based on inferior endurance and strength scores to opponents (Corwin, Bleys) that might be able to "turn the contest" to those stats.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:46 pm 
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Innocent of All But Malice

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 1:45 pm
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Location: South Carolina
I've used Finndo and Osric as villains, as neutrals, as truly dead relatives and currently Osric has gone from villain to a possible ally. I would think that Oberon would have trained all three of them, with the elder two showing Benedict a trick or two of their own (or beating him up, if you want to look at it that way).
At any rate, except for being dead, I don't see why Osric and Finndo wouldn't be at least in the same league as Benedict...or better. Also, it's probable that Corwin never even met Finndo and Osric, if I have my timelines correct.
For my campaign, I generally rank Benedict over Osric and Finndo for straight up warfare, because I think Benedict has worked harder at it since Osric and Finndo died, left, whatever. Osric and Finndo probably have other talents, however, that would make either a deadly enemy for their little brother.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:55 pm 
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Location: Germany
Oberon (no ones trickier)
Benedikt (undisputed)
- big hole
Eric (holds Amber against external enemies as well as Corwin AND Bleys, fighting as well as Corwin)
Corwin (as above)
Dierdre (Kills with everything, why should she disguise herself as warrior if she isnt one, maybe above Corwin and Eric in 1vs1)
Bleys
- big hole
Julian (Master of Arden)
- big hole
Caine (Fleet Commander)
Gerard (fllet Commander)
...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Shadow Walker

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:54 pm
Posts: 142
The invasions of Amber are where we see most of Warfare in action.

Okay, Corwin goes out into Shadow and picks up an army. No other Amberite does this. Why not?

Perhaps Bleys is unwilling to leave his home with a rival's army in it: implying that the Shadow could be overwhelmed from inside. If so, then Bleys can't have a warfare much higher than Corwin, or he'd have fortified the Shadow with a 'killing zone' that Corwin's army could be left in. Alternately, he may not have seen the need for a second army - especially as he would be helping Corwin get the army to Amber.

Eric could have sent a trustworthy relative out to get another army, but didn't. Either he didn't think of it, he didn't think he needed it, or there was no one he trusted.
If the latter, he probably announced that any approaching army would be trashed with the Jewel, irrespective of who controlled it.

Despite centuries of time to prepare, Julian didn't stop the army in forest Arden. Either he couldn't, or Eric held him back for fear that he'd defect. Given that Julian also failed to stop the Black Road, I'm going to assume he couldn't. This is pretty damning, losing on his home turf every time we meet him.

Bleys leading the way up the Kolvir actually makes sense; he isn't tiring and is able to conserve what remains of the army. As has already been pointed out, Eric failed to take advantage of an awesome opportunity though. Bleys > Eric here.
Corwin then walks into an unwinnable battle at the top, which he could avoid be simply slowing down his advance and bleeding the defenders white. Eric > Corwin.

During the next invasion, the Amberites are being hammered. Despite being on the defensive, they have no field fortifications. Again, they haven't acquired reinforcements. They aren't taking advantage of the local terrain.
What's going on here?
Pretty simple: the Amberites have been invincible all their lives, so they have no tactical or strategic skills of note. Sure, they may have *read* a few treatises, but this is armchair historian/wargamer stuff - since they rely on their superpowers to win, they never truly test themselves.
Worse, they are fighting to show off, not to win - think the French at Crecy etc. The sole exception we meet is Benedict, who has abandoned the family games. Perhaps Findo etc are the same.

So there's no need to divide Warfare into tactical/combat, because the Amberites all suck at tactics. Including Benedict.
Ranked on combat:
Benedict loses to Corwin (unless Corwin is lying), but can dismantle Corwin in a pure fight. Further, his pattern ghost performs admirably defending Merlin (admittedly, against another pompous court toadie who claims to be awesome).
So Benedict highest Warfare, poor Psyche.
Caine. Does Caine ever lose? His ability to pick his fights means he is the closest the Amberites have to a tactician.
Bleys. Bleys was clearly planning to take on Eric without Corwin, and treats Corwin with an appropriate mix of courtesy and contempt. He cheerfully leads the way up Kolvir, indicating that he considered himself deadlier than Corwin. Remember that Corwin could have stabbed Bleys in the back; given they hadn't decided who would be king, that was on the cards. Bleys correct judged that he was safe - possibly for the wrong reasons, but he was correct. He also judged that he was a better choice to lead the attack, implying that he is the better swordsman.
Corwin, if anything he says is true.
Gerard.
Julian.
Random.


Last edited by whitelaughter on Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Moderator

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 6:39 pm
Posts: 31
I'm currently playing in an Amberway game, that is Amber world with Everway rules, and it has a rather interesting take on Bleys that I like.

The two parts on the First series where you really see Bleys in action is when he is leading a huge army against Kolvir and towards the end of the series where he leads a huge force of cavalry against the forces of Chaos. So they gave Bleys a respectable fighting score but they also gave him as an advanced Pattern trick the ability to raise troops in Shadow especially quickly. When you need an army fast, Bleys is your man.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Pattern Adept
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 12:29 pm
Posts: 33
Leaving out the dead folks.... because that would get into a long story about who trained Benedict and the scions of Oberon that everyone has forgotten.

Oberon (no one's trickier)
Benedict (undisputed)
--gap
Eric (holds Amber against external enemies as well as Corwin AND Bleys, fighting as well as Corwin)
Corwin (even better one on one, this style being developed for a couple Earth centuries, as Eric finds out, dirty tricks specialist)
Dierdre (better with social warfare than all the men above, even Oberon)
Bleys (Master of Armies)
Julian (Master of Constructs)
--gap
Caine (Fleet Commander, unconventional warfare specialist)
Florimel (political warfare specialist)
Gerard (Fleet Commander, political warfare specialist)
Llewella (exotic environ warfare specialist)
--gap
Random (demonstrates enough endurance, strength, and magical talent in the canon that he can't be really tough on warfare)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Shadow Walker

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:26 am
Posts: 147
Location: Circle Pines, MN
Caine, master of asymmetrical warfare.

I like that idea.

Arref wrote:
Leaving out the dead folks.... because that would get into a long story about who trained Benedict and the scions of Oberon that everyone has forgotten.

Oberon (no one's trickier)
Benedict (undisputed)
--gap
Eric (holds Amber against external enemies as well as Corwin AND Bleys, fighting as well as Corwin)
Corwin (even better one on one, this style being developed for a couple Earth centuries, as Eric finds out, dirty tricks specialist)
Dierdre (better with social warfare than all the men above, even Oberon)
Bleys (Master of Armies)
Julian (Master of Constructs)
--gap
Caine (Fleet Commander, unconventional warfare specialist)
Florimel (political warfare specialist)
Gerard (Fleet Commander, political warfare specialist)
Llewella (exotic environ warfare specialist)
--gap
Random (demonstrates enough endurance, strength, and magical talent in the canon that he can't be really tough on warfare)


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